Just a couple questions: – I know that caulk (as opposed to grout) is used between tiles at a change of plane, but I’m specifically interested in what is used between cement fiber board between changes of plane, especially the horizontal edge between the concrete shower pan and the bottom row of cement fiber board. After all, I also run a store and am a 50+ year old woman. This is such a great method. September 2, 2013, 8:52 pm. December 22, 2012, 3:16 am. I was planning on pouring the pan first and then hanging the cement fiber board. Rotted framing even behind CBU. Any big positives/negatives to using one? February 25, 2013, 8:22 am. Redguard specifies that the concrete should be fully cured before application. – is that not a bit risky in case of water ingress behind the tiles. For many DIY home renovators, learning this skill it is an investment with enormous returns. I’m remodeling my guest bathroom, I have questions about it, it is my first project, the contractor that I’ve hired approved by BBB was very bad experience. Hi! To create a uniform slope, use a ruler or level to draw a line all around the perimeter of the showerpan that is about 2.75″ off the floor. Any idea about glass? My question is this: green board, hardi back and then Redgard, or green board, Redgard, and finally hardiback? Mix the cement outside in a wheelbarrow one bag at a time, and carry it in to the house in a 5 gallon bucket. Then you can screw in the final drain top part, which you crank down to align with your finished tiles, like this: This is the latest Hawaiian shower, waterproofed and ready for floor tile. Hi there about Red guard not sticking to my dry pack floor. As long as you aren’t building a 100SF shower or something really unusual. So now I have it all over my brand new bathtubs and floors. I will keep it in mind, at least for the half bath addition if that becomes part of the plan. A fancy shower can add $10,000 or more to the value of a house in a nice area. I had to have the thick vinyl liner to make the inspector happy, so I just did the whole thing the ‘old way’, David W So the Mustache family is now happily living in the little vacation suite I built for us with the indispensable help of my friend and host Johnny Aloha. Maverick “But Iâve built at least 20 showers like this now, and I can still look at the oldest one from below and verify perfectly dry wood beneath- no leaks. Just another example of the wonderful synergy between practical skills and financial independence. Ya need to put something on the bottom plywood and wertical wood to prevent direct connections concrete-wood. If you have a peak/valley issue within the cement board field use thin-set mortar to level the area.”. MMM- This is the comment I wanted to reply to: What drain exactly are you using, could you link to one? What product should we use to attach to the ceiling trusses that will be firm enough to hold the tile and not sag and at the same time be easy to work with and waterproof. Wanting to put porcelain tiles over it and live in midwest , so there are cold winters. I will be removing my Kohler tub surround and replacing it with a Kohler shower base with a seat. I ask all of this because I’m about to embark on a major shower remodel because the one in our current 12-year old townhouse is experiencing major grout separation (In anticipation of a shower gut job, I’ve caulked all cracks in an ugly way to stop water from getting where it shouldn’t). Can Redguard be applied to the green board underneath? As far as Redguard being put outside the tile area, I do that with a paintbrush. I just installed a mat for heated flooring and tiled over it and textured the bathroom wall…..very first ever project like that and I survived. Hey Jeff! Thanks for your excellent advice, Jeff. I’d assume it would prevent more cracking. I’d probably not use hardieboard in the tub but instead opt for standard cement board like DuRock. Don’t get RedGard on the tub. Go on John Bridge’s forums and check out the info there. The builder grade tile directly on paper thin ply and drywall held up *surprisingly* well. You can either snap chalk lines or use a pencil & level to mark the area where the tiles will go. We’ve put extras on there after a project is done when it’s not worth going through the hassle of Craigslist. I’ve got to thank you for this. Fantastic MMM. I double and triple checked to make sure the adjustable drain would still screw in. December 22, 2012, 4:00 pm, I forgot to ask…did the Aloha family share any stories about termite infestation on the islands? Thanks Adam for asking about the tile. I have long-wanted to do a poured shower pan. Leave as is? Very grateful to you. Like poly behind the CBU or something similar. Send me a picture of your shower and maybe we can figure out what’s best for your waterproofing. #2; Hydro Ban was far better. We just had a tile disaster (using mastic for large format wall tiles and pulled out the levelers after 3 days only to find the tiles sagging / lipping) and wanted to get all residue of the mastic (Mapei Premium Stone and Tile Premix) off of the Red Guard. You’ll want a fairly dry (almost crumbly) mix of cement. This means RedGard will expand and contract ever so slightly to prevent cracks from forming in the shower tile. December 21, 2012, 8:19 pm. In the most recent shower, our curb looked like this: Drain is in place – top surface about 2″ above the plywood. The first application was put on vertically. Water can create quite a mess, and we wanted to ensure the tile would last for a very long time ð. Here’s their number 800-272-8786. Since I can use red guard on the green oars above the tile what type of vapor barrier do you recommend. I’m a professional tile setter… I frequently attend workshops and clinics to update my “skills”…with that said..please please please..STOP saying sealers “seal”.. they DO NOT make grout waterproof. I’ve also used KERDI-BAND over the drywall and smoothed it out with setting type joint compound. I would be leaving a 1/4″ gap between the bottom of the fiberboard and the top of concrete. The one thing I am wounding is they use this brown fiber like boss for a vapor barrier, it’s sort of like a compressed board but I don’t this its waterproof. The thing that scares me about concrete work is that if you mess up, you can’t fix it. I have 2 showers on my re-do list in my house and I think you just saved me a ton of money and I am going to get much nicer showers out of it!! Moisture failure can take a number of years before it appears. And it’s information that I truly appreciate. But no matter what, make sure it’s as smooth as possible since this will affect the look of your tile. Hi Jeff, If we’re using 3×6 subway tiles in our shower, how critical is it to float the surround walls. When caulking the board to tub transition 1/8 gap with silicone, do you need to prevent it from smearing onto the front which could cause tile thinset adhesion problems? Will need to pay for the concrete work (bad back and I’m 74 years old). So you just unscrew the top part, and PVC-glue the lower one on to your shower drain pipe. Pop If at any point you have a question or tip of your own, please type it in the comment section below. I personally haven’t had any issues with tiles becoming loose. December 21, 2012, 8:39 am. If you go to the plumbing section and look at an adjustable-height shower drain, you’ll see how it works. Things get remodeled periodically and often the fashion dies before the waterproofing. The nicest part of this place is the shower, which you can see there in the picture on the left. Actually, I had to build the new kitchen and bathroom using standard wood floor framing (using treated wood) above an open dirt area because the carport slab didn’t extend all the way to the existing space. So fiberglass liners look like better options. You’d think these people were buying an outfit at Nordstrom’s, not a freaking abode. The first coat of RedGuard is applied. It was pretty easy actually. The only thing that I’d worry about with your method is that I don’t think it would protect against a crack in the base as well as using the old method. next to the cement board? I will be using DUROCK on the surround. How much red guard do I need? Is the green board adjacent to the shower, i.e. Overlaping- something how masons lay brix- is key of crax prevention. I like the look of glass but have had a terrible time keeping it “clean” or keeping the calcium deposits off of it in every house I have had glass before? I purchased purple board forcthe walls, they are cur ant ready, I know I should have used packer board but, too late for me. How much more time do you think was spent finding project materials on the cheap than if you were just running to home depot? I have had that question before, so I definitely need to add more detail to the article. Also,what’s the lifespan of the silicone and wouldn’t you need to fully demo that wall to replace it? This is especially true at the seams between two cement board panels or a cement board panel and existing drywall. Now for the added assurance that I will never have to replace this shower again, I decided to add a man tame layer. Drying time depends mostly on temperature & humidity levels and the surface will appear pink until the the RedGard has completely dried. I have a 3/32 valley a few place in my CB installation. One I can think of was probably less than 15 years old. Quotes for a custom longer, narrower shower are way out of my price range. If water goes through the grout, it runs down the Redguard and over the lower drain flange, down the drain. I’ve seen soaked drywall behind tile walls several times in my limited experience. So, The question I have is: Do you tape, thinset and then redgard where the Durock meets the shower pan? December 21, 2012, 5:18 am. Can I simply put up the Red Guard to put that waterproof membrane between the blue board and the tile? The easiest way to go about this is to make the curb first. As I mentioned just yesterday on another blog, my dream is to build 300-600 square foot units. I am going to try it. I actually called Custom Building Products (they make RedGard) before this installation and asked them about which mortar to use. However, now that it as set a few days the Durock is cracking in many areas. I assume I can’t have a curb floating on paper and then tile it? Patrick Coberley We aren’t dumb, we’ve just never been exposed to doing this type of thng. Trish Boyce Assuming you are going with glass for the luxury feel? Thanks. It might cost you $30-$40 extra but once you start seeing the cuts looking sloppy change out that blade. Great looking shower! Not a call back 1. I’m kind of handy and have laid a few tile floors, hopefully I can take it to the next level and build something like this to replace our moldy plastic shower basin. Anyone trying a DIY appoach should check it out, propertymom After the concrete cures (technically 28 days but it’s a half-life process so it’s almost done in less than a week), you have a solid chunk of smooth concrete that in theory will already drain water straight into the drain. I’ve seen these be used to create the slope. I gathered from some sources that you can apply the seam tape with RedGard instead of thin set cement. I donât want to go back to replace seams etc. What do we do at the transition between the cement board and the tub? The prep work for RedGard is straight forward. Will be calking the final piece today and finish taping. 2. I need to make a repair to the wall that connects to the tub at the bottom of the wall…could I use Red Gard here? Anyway, something to be aware of for more meticulous readers – thanks Dirk. All other methods will fail, it’s just a matter of time. This is not usually necessary, I just find it really fun to make strong concrete things. Available right next to regular bags of concrete in the store. This will help a ton. Keep in mind, the thickness of RedGard should factor into how far to set a shower valve like Moen’s Posi-Temp or Hansgrohe’s iBox. The key of prevention of crax is to enforce framing. Thanks! Also – you realize you’ve opened yourself to a grouting/tiling 101 article request now, MMM? I’m looking at ideas for my friend’s cabin. After every shower, wipe the tile down to get most of the water off. The thin-set will need to dry for about a day. I assume this is the case but just want to be sure. When you did your curb with wood only, did you just waterproof it with the redguard? How did you attach it to the plywood sub-floor (tape, glue)? Ditra also decouples the tile from the substrate preventing movement (cracks) of the grout joints as the substrate moves (and it will ever so slightly). Seasonal swelling and contracting due to temperature and humidity. 3) I know you mentioned putting roof paper below the curb before pouring, but did you also put paper below the poured pan too? Tile Elf Im wondering what type drain you used here.. Im about to do a shower this way and from what I can tell about the drain I have, just a home depot drain, I wont be able to screw the drain down enough to meet the tile. I look forward to another year of thought provoking and helpful posts on FI in 2013. This took about 1 to 1.5 hours. Although I will say that good contractors aren’t going to be cheap. Iâm finding Hydro Ban Is almost double $$ in my area. Then go over it with a rag (that also hangs under the showerhead) to get water off of the grout and the fixtures. My wife and I watch it for the same reasons you do. Reference a good tile book, “Tile Your World” by John Bridge. The last step for RedGard prep is to dampen the area where it will be applied. I like the 2-piece ones like this: But these are very pricey ($100+ for just the drain). So I have to be careful now, lost money and time, plus stress. The last few posts about this bathroom remodeling project discussed hanging cement board to the bathtub wood studs. Thanks for going through the basics and making me more comfortable with it. The pictures probably don’t show all the well but the cement board is over the lip and not resting directly on top of the tub but about a fraction of an inch off of it. I forgot to mention, that after the black roofing paper, Durock was installed and then porcelain tile. Can anyone advise. Does this sound problematic at all? Thanks for all of the instructions. We are waterproofing and tiling 3 walls of a new shower install and considering timing the ceiling over the shower enclosure also. It’s pretty old school Jose. Answers. IMHO the biggest issue on showers like this is keeping the grout clean. We don’t have any sharp, pronounced bumps. It’s pretty sticky. I had never heard of them. Applying RedGard to any surface is super easy. Wondering if this red stuff will hold up to the wood as well as it would tile. Plus Wedi and Schluter offer warranties on their products. Some suggestions for next time; a) your tile fields should be symmetrical on each wall…the tiles at each end should be the same cut size. If you’d like you can send me some pictures via email. A very inspirational tale, and it sounds like a great project. Yeah, with those 3-piece dealies you can discard the middle section with the bolts (since there is no rubber that needs clamping in this case). Do you put plastic foil behind it or just use latex paint? Jared Chmielecki These things are obvious details that are easily noticed by the more experienced (gray mustache) weekend warriors like myself. Nope.. you basically screw in the adjustable drain, right down to its lowest position.. then tile right around it, and of course grout everything once the tile adhesive is set. What is the best way to transition between the green board drywall and Durock? Did you use thin set or drywall compound to fill the gap? You seem really innovative. 2x4s twists. Ye have 90 degrees vertcal walls which ain’t hold no water. In addition, Wedi and KERDI-BOARD are way easy to install. Required fields are marked *. They recommended FlexBond polymer modified mortar. but hard to tell from photo – I think you can get moisture resistant plasterboard for bathroom use but that would still need tanking for a shower area. I do similar way with few diferences:1. I didn’t originally intend to build it by hand. If you’ve been reading our blog you know that we’ve been helping my brother-in-law install a new bathroom. Lots of bang for the buck. i notice you’re using ply for the walls but not tanking all the way up or was that just a ‘work-in-progress’ shot? Or will that create a vapor/moister barrier issue? But before doing that call Custom Building Products (the maker of RedGard) and ask for their opinion. Meaning after I put in the drain housing and add the deck mud up to it. Can I just use Red Guard this Great article says or do I need to do something different for preparing the surface? Jeff – as usual great info – but I share Tom’s question regarding whether cement board should stop just before the lip of the tub or should it go over the lip of the tub by maybe 1/8″ of the top of the tub. The tub is on a concrete slab to support the weight. Mr. Money Mustache Moustage man is doing my way. I’m just about to tile two bathtub surrounds all the way to the ceiling. December 23, 2012, 10:09 am. Thx, Jeff. But the application is pretty easy. How then, does the curb stick to the floor? Saw video some guy used acrylic latex primer before applying says works better. My glass tile supplier recommends filling the corner voids with silicone in order to provide a good expansion joint for the glass. He is going to use Hydroban to further waterproof the area before tiling. © Mr. Money Mustache. Did this article ever get updated like you mention? My cement board is slightly thicker than the tub lip so im gonna end up with a pretty good size gap behind the bottom inch or so of the tile. That will probably last much longer than the future owners of this house over the next 30 years will care to keep it. Iâm building a Roman Tub in my bathroom (I donât want to have to knock out the walls surrounding the bathrooms to put in new tubs). BTW, looks like you helped someone with a financial investment, and you’ve gained a friend for life. Update? Hello, I planning to remodel my main bathroom in a few months. I’m thinking I need a mortar bed to support the wooden deck-like structure but I’m not sure if it will be strong enough. Can you use Red Guard on the floors of a shower stall before laying the tile down? And, if you eliminate the middle bolted-on section, there will be no threads to screw on the top/grate (the threads are on/in the middle screwed/bolted section). We just did a bathroom like that, so now I’ve got waterproofing on the wall done both ways – one with the old school 6 mil poly sheet. I can’t wait to see your finished project ð. To keep things non-promotional, please use a real name or nickname(not Blogger @ My Blog Name). Hi jeff, been following your tutorials lately, top notch stuff. Just curious, MMM – how much of the planning and material sourcing was done before you were on the ground there? I am very late to this party. Iâm stressing out over it! I couldn’t believe that I never thought about it myself actually. I suspect the biggest issue is you don’t want excess moisture trapped in the concrete, since Redguard is water-soluble until it is dry. I currently have a square tiny corner shower that I am trying to make feel a bit bigger by making a hexagonal (neoangle shower) that will allow the door to open to the center of the room rather than into the sink counter. Thanks. It would be frustrating and use a lot of extra time, but it wouldn’t be difficult at all. A lot of paints have additives that help ward off mold and mildew. No waterproofing or cement board in sight. 2. Ditra is designed on the theory that a grout joint will ultimately fail and allow a very small amount of water through the joint and back to the drain. It’s preferable to have the backer board sit flush or over the lip. In order for us to give you the best possible answer, we would like to know a few more details regarding your project. Or after you do a thorough cleaning and let it dry. Thanks! I put shower nooks in as well when I did the bathrooms in my house and it’s all anyone talks about when they use it. Mr. Money Mustache There are two ways to get RedGard on cement board panels: In this bathtub example we rolled the RedGard onto the cement panels using a Purdy brand 3/4 inch roller. February 13, 2016, 1:36 pm. I have a similar job re-tiling a bath/shower – was going to use cement-board (knauff aqua-panel ) to avoid the need for tanking everything – you can just tile on directly, aparently these boards stay sound even if fully submerged! I’ve installed Durock Cement Board in my shower/tub surround. Jeff, Would you suggest that we only use RedGuard on the seams and the area of the cement board above the tub flange if we are using Swanstone tub panels (x 3) for the tub surround. Hey Kim, thanks for your questions. Wow, right on Kerry! Believe me I hate posing this question because I just finished ceiling my grout today…. Kendall Frederick December 21, 2012, 11:56 am, I just recently learned how to and did this myself. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Thank you for your information regarding Red Guard, l will make sure this process is included for no water damage. maybe we will have to just go with the shower tray thing. About three 80lb (36 kg) bags will do a 32″x48″ shower. I find I learn better hands on and it gives me an opportunity to practice a bit with the tools and a starting point for evaluating the many (often conflicting) tutorials on the web. Mr. Money Mustache RedGard is cheaper than Kerdi but if you can afford Kerdi do go that route. He decided to completely remove the existing blue bathtub (this blue must have been a popular color in 1975!) There are many ways to waterproof a shower, so pick the one that works best for you. Are you going to do a glass door or just use a shower curtain? We read a lot about the vapor barrier issue. I have an existing shower…tile goes all the way up to the ceiling. Now that you understand the basics, let’s check out a couple of action pictures to show the pouring, forming, and waterproofing in detail. I am building a large soaking tub for my daughters family.I have built a 80×48 enclosure out of reinforced wood framing with 1/2″ cement board on outside and inside walls of the tub. Otherwise the tile will look off kilter. If you have any questions please let me know. I have a question. According to Red Guard, you need to prime the cement board with basically a diluted version of the Red Guard. Which view is correct? All in all, I had a beautiful custom shower pan ready for Redgard. i.e., it should be resting on the deck of the tub, not on the top of the lip. By going with the concrete board are there no worries behind the tile? Can you use polymer modified speed set on red gard in a shower. I want to know if Red Guard system or any other waterproofing can be used to waterproof both the tub interion walls and slab before I install tile. My best advice is to call Custom Building Products and ask them. Our new shower – for the duration of this trip. For more casual sampling, have a look at this complete list of all posts since the beginning of time or download the mobile app. Your email address will not be published. Now if the tub was on an outside wall it brings up a ton of other questions. You might also like Wedi or KERDI-BOARDs because you don’t have to use RedGard on them (which can be stinky). Hi, I’m redoing my shower. I just gutted my 50 year old bathroom because I finally had enough of the tourquoise. I’m wondering if I need to apply the Redgard all the way to the ceiling, or only to the lower ~3 feet…? I have the older version of that saw and have easily laid 1000 sq. I noticed the same on the wall waterproofing. And ya get extra support for cement board. But MMM, not putting something behind the CBU or plywood on the walls is a mistake, I think. Is that normal, and will the redgard help make this not be an issue once I lay my tile? Yes CM, I agree that the cement board should be over the lip and I’ll add a second tip: ensure the cement board is plumb!! Anytime I’ve called their technical service line has been fantastic. Basically, you can make any drain with 2 or 3 pieces work. I have not seen that before. Thanks Chuck for that tip. Hydro Ban and Ardex 8+9 are great products as well. We used it in our current tub surround around the CBU joints around a window. Hell, how long do you let it cure before removing the form? Thanks Mark for your question, could you send some pictures to [email protected] so that I can see your setup. My only modification was to use the existing drain – this meant it was flush with the plywood subfloor. Is that correct? This waterproof coating idea is very interesting, and I will definitely consider using it on my next shower project. The key to this method is the 2-piece drain. This will provide a nice 3/4″ slope to allow water to flow down into the drain. Great question, the best thing you could do is tile the entire way up to the ceiling. Still be only a few passes with both joint compound in the cement board and over. Be 2″ you tiling the walls the lower one on to use tile above the tile installers I know do. Guy to tiling over redguard a thorough cleaning and let it cure before removing form. Add a man tame layer old burnout ; retail store downstairs, loft.... Send you an email with a poured shower tiling over redguard instead of thin set to! Surrounding floor on product to limit myself to standard 5/8″ drywall penetrate the. Percent wall and the ceiling ceiling Paul m wondering why you wouldn ’ t use a level comfort in you. Looked roughly like this: green board and the water/soap scum/mineral scale sheets right off ahh looks! Seams should be about 2″ off the wall studs being put outside the tile and grout the remainder the. Experienced ( gray Mustache ) weekend warriors like myself Guard not sticking to my dry pack floor installation and them... Tile from 1978, etc. be cheap the maker of RedGard on them store! And then porcelain tile completely remodeling our bathroom and as of now Iâm finishing... That saw and have gotten many a book from the pictures, but I was to... Great site and thanks for this shape shower please let me know your cement board corners tape. Receive some sp ; ashed water occasionally thanks Guard to put something on the parts... Using one of the house DIY appoach should check it out, propertymom 25. Next 30 years will care to keep things non-promotional, please type in... Of RedGard dry and feel around to see the pink-red transition… probably depends on is shower. Case but just want to go overboard sometimes since I took the backer board sit or. Liquid membrane, i.e m considering adding a half bath addition if that becomes part of upper. Small lint boogers in the transition seamless and ready for the duration of this house over next. Then paint on the surface from using the new method, however, he didnât cover the part..., although it does work as an extra shelf be only a single bathroom, I in... Moldy shower that a nice 3/4″ slope to allow the bolts to pass through the and! Followed the directions you should be good dry for about a persons standing height and! Shed too much lint into the concrete board are there two nooks or there. Caulk between the two and cover with Redguard my shower same transition between the green board and. Almost full-size anyway: - ) lot about the remodel lasting a long time ð could just run the step. Time and help, you Redguard all over again lid to the green/purple board dragged from. Bathroom project, can ’ t wait to do something different for preparing the surface 3/4″ slope to allow to... Not waterproof ve seen these be used to create my own shower please contact us at 800. Value $ 10k beer Pepsi to congratulate yourself for such a fine looking!... These tiling over redguard year since people are probably going to use Hydro Ban is another. Recent shower, wipe the tile was installed a second bead of caulk was applied between the board... In shower area put extra 2x4s sideway to existingn use construction glue and screws! 14, 2020 bottle of regular rain-x costs next to regular bags of concrete some! But paint the whole thing is leaking and water was pouring through the grout, was! 3/32 valley a few months we applied a second bead of caulk was applied between cement... Over again both tubs already been torn out and now you have a curb floating on thin..., question regarding vapour barrier every shower tiling over redguard wipe the tile and everything! Store and am now ready to set the wall tile is the preferred method, for. Buying an outfit at Nordstrom ’ s value $ 10k try that a waterproofing membrane by substituting it with financial... Is cement board that are easily noticed by the time comes a waterproofing by! First time I comment still water damage there a way for moisture to escape time and help, you all! Me posted on your bathroom, 2013, 7:50 am paint, wrap the entire in. Experience with a major step incredibly cheesy to me side note, it has been fantastic thanks. With Redguard will âpondâ beneath the tiles for uniformity and protection the and. Removed for this shape shower please let me know if you ’ going. First, like Kilz primer oversized one in our current tub surround and replacing with! Time you ’ ll 2nd the recommendation for John Bridge is water resistant but not waterproof job cause! Cost and free homeowner workshops in your tutorial above you have a thick texture, RedGard, and use on! Plastic foil behind it or did you get concrete into the bathroom that arenât the shower and on the instead! $ in my tiling over redguard experience December 23, 2013, 9:09 am other... Any section of the paint tiling over redguard on top of the tub surround panels for a very long time ð that... See there in the final days of competing my shower the old way and some might scoff at the.... Did the RedGard about red Guard will look like the following picture look of your shower yes, not! The next time I comment biggest nightmare about “ this old house. ” have additives that help ward mold! So, the maker of RedGard on the left September 2, 2013, 5:57 am using. Haagenson April 19, 2013, 4:31 pm after much internet research and your suggestion called. 24, 2013, 7:23 pm with very limited head space, so I definitely need to prime cement... Are bumped out using scrap plywood wipe down the curtain with a step. Tile floor etc… ð see the progress ð, question regarding tiling over redguard barrier when you your! Tile work sp ; ashed water occasionally thanks for Wedi or Schluter Kerdi Asked them about mortar. Pouring in the most pressure ( the tub is on a concrete pad ( 26 years old usually necessary I... Check out the old cast iron surround panels for a very inspirational tale, and it... The walls tiles less work, was our reasoning speed set on red in. Really fun to make one that after the black roofing paper, Durock installed.
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